warhammer40kfanonfandomcom-20200216-history
Forum:OMG Technology
On the Modification of Technology I'm seeing a lot of people writing in customised gear and heavily changed stuff in their characters, without going into how it happened. That needs a little more detail than people think, seeing as how the Imperium treats technology as a religion, rather than a science, what with the Machine Spirits and praying to stuff to hope it works after they drenched it with anointed oils and pumped it full of incense and Holy Water. Mars and it's empire jealously guard knowledge and engineering, and it's been explicitly stated that they are more than willing to resort to murder, hostage-taking and terrorism to keep a firm hold on that monopoly. In spite of how awesome it seems to have an Imperial character or entire organisation running around with heavily modified stuff like gatling plasma guns, it's altogether more likely that the Mechanicum would get wind of it and either confiscate the stuff or have the user assassinated, then take the stuff. Other races have more leeway, but are still subject to restrictions like the Eldar Paths and the Tau Caste System. Orks are hobbled by their own need to have their guns loud and that makes them inherently inefficient. Necrons have no free will, and so can't design new things. I applaud people's desire to push the letter, but they're just putting something there and leaving it at that (which, to me, stinks of "It's that way because that's how I want it"). I can understand customisations like reflex sights, scopes and chainblades and all, but then there's the likes of ramped-up terminator armour and hell, even I'm guilty of it, with the Steel Tigers Flagship, but I want to collar this before the site becomes a rampaging mess of randomly inserted Gatling Plasma Guns and Big-Bore Melta Cannons bolted to Terminator Armour with an upped Power System and a Jetpack. Thoughts? //--''Run4My Talk'' 15:51, October 29, 2009 (UTC) Sign your posts with four Tildes - ~~~~ and if at all possible, set up your own section for your opinions, and then debate and argue in the Chat section. Thoughts, responses, protests? Tomj8937 is it ok if i join the argument. I think you r right if we have stuff like jump pack wearing, dirt bike riding plasma gattling guns then we might as well have stuff like people killing the enemy by stabbing themselves through the face. Also no fury like mine u keep saying war within war without war unending. that a snippet from wolves honor. are you even allowed to do that. if so then I respond. FOR RUSS AND THE ALLFATHER!!!!!!!!!! KuHB1aM Lol who has a Gatling plasma cannon? On an unrelated side note, I totally agree. I'm guilty as well, but if we don't curb our enthusiastic nature for super-powerful high-tech equipment, it could become a problem later on. KuHB1aM 20:41, October 29, 2009 (UTC) Vegas adict Some of the stuff we have is too high tech to fit in with the setting but i don't think its that bad a problem yetVegas adict 21:24, October 29, 2009 (UTC) NoFuryLikeMine Agreed, If people cant explain why tech is the way it is they shouldnt be able to have it, I may be guilty of it so will have to go over my articles to check and fix if necessary --[http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:NoFuryLikeMine'War within, War without, War unending'] 21:30, October 29, 2009 (UTC) Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer well i know i made the "big bore" melta cannons as run4 called them, all they are is huge meltaguns just name changed cause they're on the razorbeak, i don't see why a terminator would even be able to lift one--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 14:50, October 30, 2009 (UTC) Dark Seer Agreed. Explain tech or die! no joking, but mechnicum must be involved somewhere. the standard guardsmen can alter a lasgun but he is not going to design a new titan. [http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:Dark_Seer'It is not enough'] [http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Dark_Seer'that I succeed'] [http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/dark_seer'''- all others must fail'] 01:29, October 30, 2009 (UTC) Jochannon Good point, I'm not disagreeing, but I think you're overstating the case, saying 'the Imperium treats technology as a religion'; reading the Cain novels, for instance, it seems clear that the Mechanicum tech-worshippers are in the definite minority, with the majority of people treating technology more as a science they simply don't understand.--Jochannon 18:15, October 31, 2009 (UTC) Patriot I think the use of super techs is appropriate, especially for chapters with a high amount of techpriests or perhaps chapters that are far enough away or secretive to work on technological advances behind the imperiums back. After all some chapters have existed for 8000 years and you wouldnt expect the exact same tech even with the limitations. I mean in 800 years we've gone from swords and shields to nuclear weapons and battle tanks, and to say that nothing changes in nearly 10 millenia? Not even a single invention that has more power than the venerable bolter? The tech should have drawbacks as well or have some other factor that makes the chapter still in line with all the other chapters as far as power is concerned, at least from a TT perspective if not a fluff perspective, though in realism terms it shouldn't, but for the sake of remaining balanced . Take my ion rifles for instance, basically a plasma gun that doesn't get hot has the drawback of not being deployed but in a single or a couple of squads per company with the exception of the 4th because of construction issues and very strict knowledge on its constructio. I think the player owned tech should have backstories or at least a mild explanation of how it was created/found and maybe a short biography of its inventor/innovator as well. Patriot398 16:09, November 4, 2009 (UTC) Lither I, too, am guilty of that, with a Super Powered Battle Cannon mounted on a Predator. But I am in the method of finding a decent reason of having it there. Seriously, though, they found it out from a wrecked Adeptus Mechanicus base, but they had no idea how to mass-produce it. To keep it form outbalancing itself, it eventually was recovered by the Adeptus Mechanicus after a Kabal of Shadows raid. This should pose rebalance the scales, and, hopefully, stop it from being too cheap. I hope. I haven't written it down, yet, though. On topic, many Chapters would have Techmarines, for Guardsmen, Tech-Priests, wouldn't either of those asassinate, steal, or otherwise gain that technology? --Lither 10:21, December 26, 2009 (UTC) General Subject Chatter (stay on-topic!) Eh, Bolshack, a Big-Bore Melta Cannon would be a giant Meltagun. A Multi-Melta is a double-barrel Meltagun. //--'Run4'My Talk'' 14:52, October 30, 2009 (UTC) i still dont understand why the multi-melta has a 24" range, it should have a two shot 12" range attack.--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 14:54, October 30, 2009 (UTC) :They fire simultaneously, giving a more powerful blast, which gives it a better effective range. //--''Run4My Talk'' 14:56, October 30, 2009 (UTC) right, makes sense.--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 14:57, October 30, 2009 (UTC) that reminds me, has anyone found a Major problem with my razorbeak yet?--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 15:00, October 30, 2009 (UTC) :Stay on-topic Bolshack. Ask for critique elsewhere. //--''Run4My Talk'' 15:03, October 30, 2009 (UTC) well it is "on topic" really, the melta cannons are one of the weapons on the razorbeak..--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 15:06, October 30, 2009 (UTC) :Go ask for criticism on your stuff somewhere else. This is about people making random things without explanation. You're not on-topic if that's the way the thing was designed from an STC or whatever. //--''Run4My Talk'' 15:08, October 30, 2009 (UTC) fair enough, so who did had the gatling plasma cannons anyway?--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 15:09, October 30, 2009 (UTC) :That was an example. I've yet to come across a gatling Plasma weapon other than Frank Horrigan's gun in FO2. Just giving a drastic example of what could come about if we don't collar the unexplained superweapons. //--''Run4My Talk'' 15:11, October 30, 2009 (UTC) well the only really "superweapon" i have is the metlacannon, look at tech captain charger, he uses normal weapons, just in really random places, like on shoulderpads--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 15:13, October 30, 2009 (UTC) :I think you're missing the point of the discussion. It's not about you, it's about the site in general. And if you think shoulder-mounted weapons are weird, have a look at Inquisitor Covenant. Shoulder-mounted Psycannon. //--''Run4My Talk'' 15:17, October 30, 2009 (UTC) oh, i thought it was about my "really random shit"--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 15:22, October 30, 2009 (UTC) Patriot, those 800 years were driven by discovery and innovation. In 40k, the Mechanicum pretty much decided they were allowed sue you if you showed any of those traits without their express permission. Imagine Microsoft or some other penny-pinching company in power with a hand in everything, giving them the ability to sue you (in 40k, sueing generally involves slavery or execution) for thinking independently in any of the regions of engineering and science in which they operated. //--''Run4My Talk'' 16:17, November 4, 2009 (UTC) But run4, its basic human nature to invent and discover new things, i agree with patriot on this one.--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 17:08, November 4, 2009 (UTC) :I understand that. But then, those giants on whose shoulders we all stand were highly educated, qualified and intelligent people. The average Imperial Citizen or soldier is about as educated as a Medieval Peasant. Don't even try to mention Guardsmen, their expected lifespan on the front lines is 15 minutes. Officers and the like, maybe, but they're too concerned with internal politics and shooting Orks. People might try inventing things, but bear in mind that they're horrifyingly below today's standards in terms of education, initiative anc intelligence. To them, inventing something is tying a knife to their gun and calling it a spear-blaster. //--''Run4My Talk'' 18:32, November 4, 2009 (UTC) :Run4, just a few things: 1, the average lifespan of an Imperial Guardsman in combat is 15 hours(Canon! Someone actually wrote a book about it!) 2, your assertion that people of the imperium are 'horrifyingly below today's standards in terms of education, initiative anc intelligence' is obviously and inherently flawed: the Imperium of the 40th millennium is unimaginably vast and varied, on some, many, perhaps even most worlds, that statement might hold true, but there's no way in hell it would work on all. 3, to go to your example of tying a knife to a gun; the bayonet might not seem like a major thing to dome people today, but when it was invented, the bayonet literally changed the face of warfare. 4, and finally, I take great issue with your statement that 'those giant' were 'highly educated, qualified and intelligent'; intelligence does not equal inventiveness, and education sure as hell does not equal intelligence; Samuel Colt never went to school, Thomas Edison flunked out of school after three months; Patrick Ferguson invented a practical breechloading rifle in 1770(!) he was neither particularly well-educated or intelligent, he just had an idea and made it work. ::You're measuring everything by this world's standards. I know education does not equal intelligence, but all the people you've named could read, write and do basic maths. In a universe where ignorance is considered strength, people aren't going to display initiative for the sake of toeing the line. And the Imperium is widely known to be of an undereducated mass. They're kept that way to maintain the status quo, keep them ignorant and happy in the face of impending death by cosmic horror because the ruling castes deem them unfit to know what they're up against. And everyone you've mentioned had access to their materials, and facilities in which to test them, even if it was just the garden shed as the case may be. And you're also forgetting the Mechanicum's monopoly on technology. They put the Space Wolves on trial (or what amounted to it) for inventing the Predator Annihilator. And by Giants, I meant the likes of Tesla, Einstein, Newton, Hooke, Boole, Curie, Becquerel, Young, Faraday, Avagadro, Dalton, Crookes, the likes of those. Edison's one great invention, the Filament Bulb, is dreadfully inefficient, and he spent years of trial and error to figure out that he should use an inert gas and a metal with a high melting point in it. If it wasn't for his development of DC Power Transmission, he'd hardly a stellar example. As for the fifteen minutes thing, I was referencing that book, and I'm not sure why minutes stuck out in my head more than hours. I'm not belittling the bayonet in any way either, it's a fantastic tool. //--''Run4My Talk'' 14:31, November 16, 2009 (UTC) :'Edison's one great invention, the Filament Bulb'? Run4, I do not want to insult you, but that is a stupid statement: by the time he died, Thomas Edison held 1,093 US patents in his name, as well as many more in Great Britain, France, and Germany; including, but not limited to, the motion picture camera, the Fluoroscope, the first two-way telegraph system, the carbon microphone(in worldwide use until the 1980s), the stock ticker, and just so much more! I really do not want to offend you, but the fact of the matter is, that Thoms Edison is a stellar example. But that's beside the point: the point is, inventing new technology, and specifically weapons of war; have you ever heard of chainshot and barshot? If not, I'll say what it is: it's two related types of naval ammunition, used by warships in the age of sail; extremely powerful, a single shot could cripple a battleship! They were invented by pirates: illiterate, uneducated, unwashed pirates; the modern APC was invented by British soldiers in the field during the Second World War: hardly giants, those men just had to get past the German artilery alive. So they took a bunch of obsolete tanks and invented the APC; certainly the Molotov Cocktail or Pipe Bomb were not invented by literate men.--Jochannon 20:17, January 12, 2010 (UTC) ::I've gathered as much. I'm quite the Edison skeptic (Tesla fan right here), and he deserves a lot more credit than I give him. And I know what Chain and Bar shot are, I watch naval documentaries too. You're talking about things that I'm not arguing here. Things that could definitely find their place. You're as far off the point as anyone with that. The point of this is to keep tabs on things like ramped-up power armour (well, maybe that's not a great example, what with artificer armour), not some soldiers commandeering an obsolete tank and using it as a transport. That's modifying something existing to a new purpose. Like using the hand to punch, instead of slap, a great invention, but hardly a leap like suddenly developing Terminator Armour that isn't hefty and crushing, or a Plasma Cannon that doesn't overheat. //--''Run4My Talk'' 20:25, January 12, 2010 (UTC) Bad idea, nice name though.--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 21:12, November 4, 2009 (UTC) Lol Tom, NoFury is using that quote as a custom sig. KuHB1aM 21:17, November 4, 2009 (UTC) Lol, I love my Wolves so I put that as my Sig, No going and stealing it ai might get confusing lol --[http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:NoFuryLikeMine'War within, War without, War unending'] 01:03, November 5, 2009 (UTC) Does that extend to the Space Marines as well? I know the marines themselves don't have any time to, but tech designated members of the chapter very well could. I don't understand that about the imperium, there are so many things that could be invented that could up the capability of the guard or marines but they are stifled. So many ideas and designs that are wasted that could of ended up being a new front line weapon... such foolishness. btw I'm definitely moddeling a gatling plasma gun when I get the bitz :)Patriot398 18:13, November 5, 2009 (UTC) :The Space Marines have more free-rein than most because they're a semi-autonomous organisation. However, they really only add to and expand on existing concepts, like new Land Raider and Predator designs. I doubt they'd go around inventing Cold Fusion or Strangelet Cannons. As for Humanity's fear of technology, do a little reading on AIs and why they're illegal in the Imperium. Men of Iron. Machines began to ask questions and the war between them and their one-time masters, humanity, destroyed Mankind's first interstellar empire. //--''Run4My Talk'' 18:18, November 5, 2009 (UTC) My tech-captain created the Avenger pattern predator, does that count?--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 21:51, November 5, 2009 (UTC) I would say yes. You'd need to explain it in detail (for example, how does the modified vehicle compensate for the extra power needed to keep new systems running, how do the new modifications work). KuHB1aM 21:59, November 5, 2009 (UTC) I understand why AI's aren't acceptable, but other "dumb" technology is what I was thinking. If I remember strangelets right a cannon using them does seem like a bad idea. Gatling plasma cannons on the other hand... XD Though I'd hate to be the guy using it, would overheat way too fast and blow up before much gets done. So innovation with the space marines is alright but invention, to an extent, is unacceptable in terms of rediculous and way overpowered items in large supply? I don't think it would be too much for a chapter to have say one or two plasma gatlings (just an example) that would be used for say the core of a fortress monastery and that alone. I think use also should play a part in determining if the user has taken too much liberty in the weapon. An entire company with plasma gatlings would be too much, but one or two? Should be fine in my opinion. Patriot398 21:46, November 11, 2009 (UTC) you could put the "gatling plasma guns" on a land raider, it would work on one of them but not on anything smaller like a predator.--Chapter Master Bolshack Wildhammer 21:52, November 11, 2009 (UTC) Thinking about gatling plasma, does it really take that much of an imagination to strap 3 plasma guns together, put a small motor on the end so it spins and have a small firing mechanism that fires the weapon that happens to be on top? The weapon isn't feasable because of the risk involved but on the other hand i think even orks could figure to strap stuff together to make a bigger weapon. Patriot398 22:05, November 11, 2009 (UTC) Its not unfeasible, simply would be foolish. considering the weapons that could be mounted in place of it would make the gatling plasma unnecessary. many chapters wouldnt even take the risk. however the Tau have something similar, the Burst Cannon so it is done to an extent already, but is much safer than an Imperial Plasma weapon --[http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:NoFuryLikeMine'War within, War without, War unending'] 01:20, November 12, 2009 (UTC) I gotz me a lil somethin somethin... it's called a boomstick. KuHB1aM 02:01, November 12, 2009 (UTC) lol, that so sounds like something the units would say in Warcraft 3 when you rapidly click on them --[http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:NoFuryLikeMine'War within, War without, War unending'] 02:55, November 12, 2009 (UTC) Haha, it does too. We found a witch, may we burn her? And Patriot, given the profound lack of any kind of education most people suffer in the 40k universe, bolting some plasma guns to a central axis that can rotate and then timing them to fire in cycle is about as feasible as expecting them to beat a Bloodletter in a fistfight. And that's ignoring that they'd more than likely have to build the motor and trigger and timer from scratch. //--''Run4My Talk'' 06:48, November 12, 2009 (UTC) I loved that game when i was at school, none of this WOW crap, you can take my boomstick when you pry it from my cold dead hands haha --[http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:NoFuryLikeMine'War within, War without, War unending'] 14:15, November 12, 2009 (UTC) Alas, I am counfounded. All Esoterran residents are now required to get a college education. problem solved >.< Meh, it makes sense, I had not really understood the level of ignorance in the wh universe. I has been teached :P Patriot398 17:24, November 12, 2009 (UTC) :The ignorance has an upside. There's a Chaos Space Marine Skill in Inquisitor that makes other characters try to kill themselves if it looks like they're gonna be caught by a Chaos Marine (that includes jamming an Inferno Pistol in their mouth and pulling the trigger). It doesn't work on stupid people. //--''Run4My Talk'' 17:27, November 12, 2009 (UTC) rofl. Well, igorance IS bliss. Patriot398 17:43, November 15, 2009 (UTC) look i think its a fair point. why not a plasma gattling gun. I mean as long as they dont heavily modify a marine's arms so they meld in to a titan weapon like a gattling blaster.that would be wrong.But as long as they made the plasma guns weaker to compensate for the rate of fire and lower the risk of it blowing up in the wielder face, it would be fine.Also why not a shoulder mounted weapon. I mean I've got a model with 2 flamer shoulder mounted weapons and four arms with lightning claws on them all. Because he is a chaos space marine, it doesn't matter because they mutate in every way. Tomj8937 Shoulder mounted weapons do exist already so arent really an OMG weapon unless it is something really stupid. Look at Eisenhorn, he has one --[http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:NoFuryLikeMine'War within, War without, War unending'] 10:41, November 24, 2009 (UTC) True, very true I mean there's broadside battle suits, Eisenhorn (as you said),My chaos marine with 4 arms and 2 flamers,countless inquisitors etc.etc. the list is endless. but I think you do need to block some crazy ideas like guns that suck people in to make bullets.Tomj8937 :Orks did it already. Fires Snotlings through the Warp. //--''Run4My Talk'' 15:03, December 1, 2009 (UTC) Didn't think of that. Nice 1. Mypoint is block some stupid ideas like tech that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Tomj8937